[00:00:00] Ryan Mellon: Ever feel stuck choosing between staying productive and an Airbnb where you don't meet anyone or staying in a hostel where the party never stops and your work suffers. Today I sit down with Lauren, founder of CO 4 0 4. A co-living network with locations across Mexico and Columbia. He's built spaces where digital nomads can actually focus on their work while building real friendships that last beyond a single night out.

[00:00:25] Ryan Mellon: You'll learn why 50% of his guests extend their stay. How to find community [00:00:30] without sacrificing your income. And simple habits that separate nomads who travel for five years from those who burn out in six months,

[00:00:38] Ryan Mellon: stick around until the end to find out how he protects the community vibe and what happens when there's a bad apple in the co-living.

[00:00:45] Ryan Mellon: Welcome to Digital No Imagination, where we inspire and empower you to achieve location independence and live life on your own terms. Today we have Lauren Bore. Welcome, Lauren. nice to see you, and excited for [00:01:00] this conversation. You came highly recommended from another guest as being the owner of probably the best co-living in the world, from what I'm hearing, so.

[00:01:10] Laurens: Oh no. Thank you so much. I don't know. We're the best, at least like we try to be. but no, these are kind. Thank you so much.

[00:01:16] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. So tell us about your co-living and like how did you get to here

[00:01:20] Laurens: Uh,

[00:01:20] Laurens: yeah, for sure. So like our, our co-living is called CO 4 0 4 and, right now we have to elect three locations. So like two in Mexico, in, in San Cristal, [00:01:30] in in Oaxaca City and one in Columbia, me.and then, yeah, we started in 2021, our first one in San Cristal.and, and I think we are co-living that is, um, that bases a lot on community.

[00:01:43] Laurens: I think, and I, I know a lot of co-living say that, and I think with co there's such a. There's a lot of different niches out there, you know, where like co living is one, but there's so many different kind of co livings out there. There's the boutique co livings, there's the resort co livings, there's the community co livings, the hostel co living, the [00:02:00] fancy co livings.

[00:02:00] Laurens: And I think definitely we are trying really hard on the community part. Like just really all of our effort is just like, how do you make, how do I make you feel home for like a month or two months or three months while you stay at us? and, and yeah, like that is the most important. Thing of what we do and, and just for the people to feel home.

[00:02:20] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome. So how does, you know for those PE backpackers out there, solo travelers who maybe have been to hostels, then they have a [00:02:30] little room where you can co-work and stuff. What separates you from these type of,what, what you might call like boutique or hostel co-living, like what's different about you guys?

[00:02:41] Laurens: I think, yeah, that's a good question. like what separates us? I think definitely, the long stays, like I think in, in, usually in hostels, they stay like 2, 3, 4 days maybe. And, and they have like a travel of like maybe three months in total. And I think definitely like we, we are maybe a kind of hostel vibe.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Laurens: Like an atmosphere, but not in, in rooms. So like in hostels, usually it dominance like, dorms, like a lot of dorms and maybe one or two or three private rooms. Where we are, I think like, yeah, we are 95% private rooms and then we only have one, one dorm. And actually it's like also like a kind of a luxury dorm where we make the dorm much bigger.

[00:03:20] Laurens: because again, we want, we keep in mind that you wanna stay with us for a month or two months. and I think, yeah, I think that would be the, the biggest difference. I think also [00:03:30] out of experience, this is like my experience, I dunno if this is generally, but I think usually if you stay in a hostel, hostel.

[00:03:36] Laurens: The ages are lower. Like, so usually the hosts are between like 19 until 25 years old, where our age is like between 28 to 35 years old. and of course we have a co-living in our coli, in our, in our, in our place. We have a massive kitchen. Our spaces are designed for staying a month, and I think these are like the biggest differences between a [00:04:00] hostel and maybe a co-living or a hostel co living.

[00:04:02] Ryan Mellon: Okay, so a little bit older crowd, probably more experienced digital nomads traveling longer. Probably not as, as big of a party spot as some of the, the hostels where it's, everyone's there just to, to party every night so you can actually like, legit, like, you know, get some rest, make friends, and also, you know, meet other entrepreneurs and, and get work done.

[00:04:29] Laurens: I think that is [00:04:30] really important for our guests because it's like the meeting the other entrepreneurs that is great because I know some co livings, they do also like, workshops after, you know, like as an activity or something.

[00:04:39] Laurens: which I think is great because it connects people, but we don't really do that. Like what we do is really what we believe is like, you know, you work during the day and then after work you just want to connect with people. I think in the end. We're just human beings and in the end we just wanna, we just wanna connect with people and we just focus on that like, kind of like relaxation after work.

[00:04:59] Laurens: and then, yeah, [00:05:00] like with, with people that are a little bit more experienced that have been doing this for a couple of years, and then you don't want to party every night anymore. Again, like sometimes we have our guests that go out on a Friday or Saturday night, but we have an 11 o'clock silent, that you have to be silent in our place.

[00:05:14] Laurens: So after 11, if they wanna go party or have a drink, they always do that outside so that everyone else that does have work tomorrow wants to do an activity tomorrow or just wants to chill that they can have their rest and sleep, you know, like. Sell that alcohol and sell that beer and party. [00:05:30] Party. Party, you

[00:05:30] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. I've been, in some hostels that have like, you know, a co co-living in 'em, like Selena, for example. And it's also like, it's like a bar slash co-living slash hostel and it's like, it can be way too much sometimes, like, especially if you're really actually about your business and you know, you're not, you're not in that age, age group anymore where that's number, you're one of your top priorities.

[00:05:59] Ryan Mellon: So.[00:06:00]

[00:06:00] Laurens: no. I ha no, hell no. Like, no. I actually had a funny story because I, when, when it was COVID and everyone was working online, I was working online as well, and I had a friend in my team. I was having a meeting with her and she was actually staying in a Selena back then. and at, and she was in like one of those meeting booths, you know, where you can have like your private meetings and actually the staff of, of Selena at 3:00 PM they knocked on her door while she was having a meeting and like she was like.

[00:06:25] Laurens: Like, Hey, I'm in a meeting, can you please let, they kept knocking and then she opened the door like, Hey, everything [00:06:30] is okay. I was like, yeah, just wanna let you know that Happy hours just started. So are you interested in the drink? And she was like, are you kidding me? Like,yeah, Selena is maybe more, you know, like that kind of

[00:06:41] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. No, for sure. Definitely. been in a few in Mexico over the years, a couple years ago. I avoid them now, for that reason. that, that's a funny story. So do you guys, how many rooms do you guys have, like, and how many people normally are with you at a time?

[00:06:58] Laurens: so like in our [00:07:00] three locations, so two, one of our locations we have between 15 and 20 private rooms. and I think like definitely 90% of the people that stay with us are like single. So like that's just one person. sometimes like the other five are like a couple, or like, maybe I would say 10%. They are couples.

[00:07:15] Laurens: and then in our first location, San Cristobal there, we have 11 rooms, so it's a little bit smaller. so like with our staff, because we work with volunteers, with volunteers that like, that are part of the, you know, part of the group and part of the [00:07:30] family. And they also help us setting the vibe and help us set up the activities and our just like.

[00:07:35] Laurens: Also like a little bit older volunteers, like not the young ones, like, like, you know, like 30-year-old volunteers and they help us create this atmosphere that we wanna do. So altogether, so maybe in our two locations, Oaxaca, Meddellion, altogether we have like around 25 people to 30 people. If it's more couples, and we are around 30 people.

[00:07:54] Laurens: And in San Cristobal we are like between like, yeah, like maybe 15 to 18 people [00:08:00] if we're fully booked. And then usually we are like. I think 10 months of the year, we are like 90% fully booked.

[00:08:08] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome.

[00:08:08] Laurens: yeah, we're really fortunate.

[00:08:10] Ryan Mellon: and like, tell, tell me more about the volunteers. Are they also nomads? Are they locals or a mix?

[00:08:16] Laurens: no, like, so it's like actually a little bit of a mix. So like usually they are. Aspiring Nomads who are just like, Hey, I wanna work online, but maybe I don't wanna still wanna travel, so I don't want to give up [00:08:30] 30 hours of my week on just work. So I just wanna do like five hours or 10 hours of work just enough to get me going.

[00:08:36] Laurens: So we have those kind of volunteers, or the other volunteers are just actually like, Hey, I'm traveling and I've been traveling for six months and I've done volunteering. So I'm in a small budget and I've done volunteering a party hostel, and I've done volunteering maybe in a farm somewhere. But like, I need some rest right now.

[00:08:52] Laurens: And this feels like so well, so good coming here because everyone stays here a month. So like all the people that I'm gonna meet and stay here for a [00:09:00] month, also all the same people, you know, so it's not socially exhausted to just keep meeting. and then those, sometimes those kind of people are also interested in becoming a digital nomad or working remotely.

[00:09:11] Laurens: And then, then they're just there getting inspired by our guest, you know, like, Hey, how do I do this? Like, because I think a lot of people always. It's such a big hurdle or such a big thing to become a digital nomad. While my experience just listening to all of our guests, like, it's maybe easier than you think.

[00:09:28] Laurens: Like, you know, [00:09:30] maybe you do have to be flexible if you don't have a certain skill. You do have to be flexible in what kind of job you'll do. But I think there are so many online jobs available.

[00:09:37] Ryan Mellon: absolutely. Like even, when I teach people that are kind of having those hurdles, it's usually big mindset changes and like leaving everything behind and getting on the road solo that are like the big hurdles. But you know, I teach people like. If your job is just like, you know, like I come from a restaurant and warehouse background and I used all those skills that [00:10:00] I built in those purely, in-person jobs.

[00:10:03] Ryan Mellon: Of course, I had computer skills that we used in those jobs to transition into something that was fully remote. So, It's, it's kind of interesting that you guys have people there that are kind of just volunteering and soaking up, like the knowledge and experience and seeing what some of the other nomads are doing.

[00:10:22] Ryan Mellon: And so if they volunteer with you, do you give them any discounts or free stays or anything like that?

[00:10:29] Laurens: Yeah, so like [00:10:30] our volunteers, they, so they have to do between three and four shifts a week. which is not that much because you have to think like, maybe if we have like two or three check-ins a week, you know, that's it. so it's just a really, like their, their reception shift is just made, just being there, you know, like, so if, if one of our guests.

[00:10:48] Laurens: Once I have as a question or wants to talk or, you know, there's a check-in at night or maybe really early in the morning that we make sure someone is there that we don't do a self check-in, you know, that we always welcome them [00:11:00] and then they do one activity per week, on our expenses. and then with that we provide them a free stay in our dorm, volunteer, like dorm, you know, a volunteer dorm.

[00:11:10] Laurens: as I know in other places, in other houses you'll get more, but sometimes there you have to like work. Many more shifts and because the job is so chill, and again, it's also a good, a good chance for them to do some focus and online work or whatever. Because in your experience, like what do you feel with, with the people you work with, what the, what do you feel is actually their biggest hurdle of [00:11:30] becoming a dig, like, or working online?

[00:11:32] Laurens: Is that like finding a job or is the emotional of like, Hey, I'm going down on the road and living a new lifestyle.

[00:11:38] Ryan Mellon: it depends, like if they already have like remote skills, it's pretty easy for them to transfer into that 'cause they're already kind of doing it. But if they've never solo traveled in their life, I think that's a big hurdle for a lot of people. Just like the concern of loneliness or safety, or not speaking the language or you know, and then all their [00:12:00] friends and family being like, is everything okay?

[00:12:02] Ryan Mellon: Or just like quitting your job and going to Mexico or. Columbia, like, what's happening? You know, you have those social pressures from your, your peers and your parents and your family. So, it's all, it's a mix and everybody's different. So, I really like that you guys have some volunteer. There and that, like if you, it almost sounds like you have a little bit of like a digital nomad bootcamp going [00:12:30] on, right?

[00:12:30] Ryan Mellon: Because they could just show up and volunteer and soak up the vibes and maybe like transition that way.

[00:12:37] Laurens: yeah, like, I, I wouldn't, because again, if it's, if it's a bootcamp, I don't want us to get the credit because like with with us, we give them the total freedom. and, but yeah, they definitely have the opportunity and, and like, we just wanna, you know, we just wanna help them and, and they help us and we just like for, for that period of time that we are together.

[00:12:53] Laurens: Like that. We are just like, you know, like really? I know it sounds cliche because everyone says that, but it's kind of so true [00:13:00] because everyone kind of needs it, and that's what you miss. It's like, yeah, we're just trying to like be each other's family in a way, you know? So when we are sick, take you to the hospital or when you're sick, like give you some soup or ask you how your day is going, like, just to kind of like that.

[00:13:13] Laurens: We both benefit from replacing each other's family that we don't have anymore because everyone, you know, everyone is back home and you're traveling, and so for that one month we replace each other. So that also means. Emotional support and like, you know, support in just general, like whatever you want to do to our volunteers or to the guests.

[00:13:29] Laurens: We're like, man, [00:13:30] like, yeah, like let's do it. Go, go for it and wherever we can help, you know, we wanna, we wanna help. And then everyone is just, it just makes the whole vibe better because everyone feels so empowered that the whole atmosphere of the whole place just also changes in so much, you know, positive things where everyone is, I wouldn't say like at their best, but like at their best possible, you know, like that day.

[00:13:51] Ryan Mellon: Absolutely. Yeah. And just being around people that are oth, that are achieving and doing similar things like that, that that energy [00:14:00] and that, environment is just super positive. It's always good.

[00:14:03] Laurens: Yeah, no. Yeah, no, for sure.

[00:14:06] Ryan Mellon: what, what would you say like a typical day or typical, week looks like at like living and working at the co-living?

[00:14:13] Ryan Mellon: Like you guys have a little bit of structure and activities.

[00:14:17] Laurens: yeah, for sure. So like, as, as any business we, you know, we started in 2021 and we've made a lot of mistakes and I think,I just try to see over the years, what do you know our, [00:14:30] our guests want? Like what is actually their need? And so one of the things. What we saw is like we, we used to do activities chosen by the volunteer, by the volunteers, but because we have new volunteers every month or every two months, so the consistency was like sometimes we had volunteers that just did something that the whole group wanted to do.

[00:14:50] Laurens: Or sometimes we had a volunteer, like, I'll give you an example, and this is like an extreme example, but like the first year we started, we had a volunteer who was a little bit more alternative, which [00:15:00] is fine, but she wanted to do a howling moon night. It was a full moon, and she was like, okay, let's, let's how at the moon, you know, and we always wanna empower everyone.

[00:15:09] Laurens: So like, we didn't wanna say like, Hey, I don't think that's gonna work, but you know, let's try it. And so she tried it. And of course nobody, because it's so niche. And again, it's a great thing if, you know, but it's a such a niche thing. So nobody really showed up. And the next week she was like, oh, I'm so sad because nobody showed up.

[00:15:25] Laurens: So that is an extreme example of like a successful and not successful activity in [00:15:30] our, in our community. Right? Because like, there's. It's subjective in an activity. So we created basically an activity list of like over the last three years of what we saw, like, so I went over all of our activities and all the subscriptions of the last three years, like which activities signed up the most people, and so now we just chose an eight week. Rotation of like three fixed activities every week that are happening over eight weeks. So like we have week one until eight, and then every week is kind of like a different activity. And [00:16:00] then when we're at week eight, we just started week one again with also like one, one activity that is just like, Like a flexible activity that we say like, Hey, our group right now is like this, like maybe a more party group or maybe more a nature group, so let's maybe do a hike. You know, that we still have that flexibility. and so how would a week look like? Yeah, like we have our family dinner every Wednesday.either usually cook by us, but sometimes we ask too, like, hey, to any of the guests, like, Hey, bring your culture to us.

[00:16:26] Laurens: You know, bring your culture in the group. So if you wanna cook something, we'll help you buy all the [00:16:30] groceries and, and, and be your sous chef and help you cook it. Then let's share your meal, because I think that's also something you do as a family, right? Like sharing your meal is a kind of love that you give to your, your family or, you know.

[00:16:42] Laurens: and then usually we do our activities after working hours. So like, that means like after 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM in the week, we try to take it really chill. Like some in-house activities or maybe some cultural activities like that we take in-house. So like, I don't know, like a, a mescal tasting that we have here in Oaxaca.

[00:16:59] Laurens: We bring someone [00:17:00] in-house. So that you're not tired of the whole work day of working and then you still have to go out and do an activity. And then in the weekends we have maybe some activities that we do outside. and we, yeah, generally like I think four activities a week to not burn you out, but also to have enough choice so you can still choose your own liking.

[00:17:19] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, and everything's optional, right? So if someone just feels like not doing it, doing whatever the, the thing is, they, you know, could still come and go and do your own thing or hide [00:17:30] away in your room and get some rest.

[00:17:32] Laurens: exactly. Everything is option. And also like, because we, you know, of course we're still a business, but it's so difficult because like it's, we see, we do see everyone as like, as not a, you know, more than just a guest. You know, like you're more as just a guest. We we're gonna live together for a month, so we also don't take profit from our activities.

[00:17:51] Laurens: which is maybe business wise a bad decision. But my, like the philosophy of Co404 four. We want to make our profit from the business, from your stay. And then all the [00:18:00] activities are just like what it costs for us. That's what we will charge you. Because I feel like it's the same thing as, you know, imagine Ryan, if you are at dad, ask you like, Hey, let's go, let's go have a tasting.

[00:18:11] Laurens: He's not gonna try to make profit off of you. Right? Like, and, and I want, I want our guests to see, like, I want to, to see them that like, okay, I don't feel like a money sign. You know, like a sign. Which in other places you'll feel like sign.

[00:18:24] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm thinking back to Sel Yeah. Yeah, [00:18:30] exactly. Yeah. I mean, they, they, they saw too many dollar size and I, I dunno the details, but I know they're not doing that that great anymore.

[00:18:37] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, well, I think it just got too corporate-y and like, you know, like wristbands for this and that and like always somebody like coming up to you in the middle of the day to try and sell you, um, something that day. It's

[00:18:50] Laurens: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:50] Ryan Mellon: it's just like, uh, but uh, yeah. No,

[00:18:53] Laurens: I guess that's the pressure of investors now because once you have investors, they just wanna see money. And it's really hard as [00:19:00] a to, to have a clear mind.

[00:19:01] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. No, no. I love it. So it sounds like, is it just you that runs the business or do you have a, A partner.

[00:19:09] Laurens: I mean, it's never just me. Like right now, I, I run the business like we did start the business with the three of us. And like we met in 2019 actually volunteering in a hostel, in Mexico. And because like I, I backpacked for three years, like around the world and with a really low budget. And then of course after three years I was like, [00:19:30] what am I gonna do with my life?

[00:19:31] Laurens: You know, like I didn't want to go back home.I love where I'm from. Like Belgium, I love my country and I'm super proud to be there, but my heart has never been there. So I was like, I don't wanna go back home. And then of course, as a backpacker, after three years, not knowing what you wanna do, I was like, let's start a hostel.

[00:19:47] Laurens: You know, like every, the moist original idea ever. And um, and then, yeah, I was, I volunteered in the hostel because I wanted to learn the hostel business. So I came to Mexico, which a country I really love visiting. And I was like, okay, I wanna try to do it in [00:20:00] Mexico. And I came to Mexico.in one of the best hostels that I could find.

[00:20:04] Laurens: And I told the manager like, Hey, I will work for you for free as a volunteer, but give me more responsibility. Please. Like, just teach me everything you've got. Right. And then, then I met, uh, my other business partner, Jocelyn, and my other business partner, David. Jocelyn is Mexican and David is from the United States, from Minnesota.

[00:20:23] Laurens: And yeah, we met volunteering and usually if you volunteer, you already have. This really [00:20:30] chill, like you're just really easygoing because you're, you know, you live usually live on a budget. You live together for a, a month or two months in a dorm. So usually it's a good sign because also Johnson and David are super easygoing people.

[00:20:44] Laurens: and then yeah, like anyways, we want, we wanted the host, but then we met digital nomads in the hostel who were saying like, Hey, and this was before COVID, right? And they were like, either I stay in an Airbnb and I know how to focus. Then I don't meet anyone, you know? And it's so [00:21:00] hard if you're not an extrovert person, like it's so hard to meet people, right?

[00:21:03] Laurens: It's really like a mental, where you have to prepare yourself and then, or I stay in a hostel and I meet so many people, but I, if you have fomo, like I'm kind of screwed because I wanna do every day I wanna do something and I don't work anymore. And that's where basically we were like, Hey, like we wanted to do a hostel, but why?

[00:21:22] Laurens: Just not that. hostel, but then for digital nomads, you know, which became a co-living, which I didn't know anything about co livings. Right. And that's, it became a [00:21:30] co-living. And, um, and we don't have to do it, deal with the puking or the drunk people. Like it's just an older crowd. It's just so much more like deep, like a deeper kind of, you know, like a relationship you'll have with the guest.

[00:21:42] Laurens: And that's where yeah, that's where the idea idea came from. And so, yeah. So there, so I'm running it, the Co404 four right now with my whole team of course, because like. I know it sounds cliche, but it's really true. Like, I mean, I would be nothing without them, with the whole team. Like everyone has been there since, like, so many of us has [00:22:00] been here since day one.

[00:22:01] Laurens: all of like the managers, the, the cleaning staff, the working staff, all of our, usually all the products that we have to our website actually, that was made by a guest. Our marketing is done by, uh, like is by done by a guest. Social media is done by the first person. like our friend Sarah, like she does an amazing job.

[00:22:20] Laurens: So like we still get with the whole team since the beginning. Um, but then our two, our two business partners now, they, they wanted to do something else. They still wanted to travel, so they [00:22:30] said like, okay, let's put a pause in it. I was like, okay, no, sounds great. no worries.

[00:22:33] Ryan Mellon: That's great. So do you have a, like one of you at each location generally or kind of move

[00:22:40] Laurens: no. No, um, I just move around a lot between the locations and again, like I, there's so much trust in our managers, like they're doing such an amazing job. that, that when we started San Cristobal, I was there, we were there for six months, and then we started Oaxaca and then we were here for a year.

[00:22:59] Laurens: And then also [00:23:00] in, like, we, I tried to go there as much as possible, but. I, I taught myself, or, and also our team, like we, we build on a way that we make sure that the quality doesn't go down, even if the owner is not there. So that, you know, behind the scenes, I read every message. I read everything. Like I, I'm like, kind of like OCD of just like behind the scenes, knowing everything, what's going on, know, reading every email, reading every message, like every review, um, and just checking in with my, [00:23:30] with the team, you know, every day. And it's incredible because like again, yeah, like I just, we just have such a good relationship with the managers that they really create something really beautiful. Like an would. It's really, I'm so fortunate with the manager.

[00:23:44] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome. And like when someone comes, like, how do they find you? And like, what's a typical stay for a first timer?

[00:23:53] Ryan Mellon: yeah. That, that's the big question. Hey. I'm terrible at marketing and actually, apparently part of marketing is something like statistics and all that [00:24:00] stuff, like where everyone comes from and like, we kind of like, of course we asked our guests sometimes, but like I feel sometimes bad about asking them, Hey, can you leave a review?

[00:24:10] Laurens: Or can you, like, where did you come from? Because it's such a

[00:24:13] Laurens: Generic question that hotels do. So I try to avoid that question again, not to make them feel like they're, you know, just a guest. Right. but anyway, so this year we did start doing that because like when I looked up in more in marketing, like statistics are important and so what we have found is like [00:24:30] 95% of our bookings are direct booking.

[00:24:32] Laurens: Which we're really happy about because the fees on these platforms are insanely high. I would recommend everyone never book on the platforms for co livings. I would recommend booking directly, either it's much cheaper or the co living is just gaining much less money from from them, because sometimes it's 25% of what we have to pay to those platforms.

[00:24:52] Laurens: Yeah. And so what I do in my case is that I charge 'em 25% more for

[00:24:57] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Yeah. I don't blame you.

[00:24:59] Laurens: [00:25:00] But yeah, usually I think, I think like what people wrote was like 60% is word of mouth. some social media. And I think like, our website, we now have started doing some, Google ads, to fight off, like, not to fight off, but like, you know, there's some bigger, big, bigger companies out there that us, like bigger co livings, like, you know, chains, they have a much better knowledge of like marketing than us.

[00:25:22] Laurens: So like, we're trying to like, okay, step up our game and, and do the same. But, so I think most of them is just recommendations from other people because [00:25:30] you know, it's, I think the digital, no matter, the remote working world is just a really small world where you just go to the same spots in the same core of living hour and it's just there.

[00:25:39] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. No, I think it's a lot of word of mouth. I mean, that's how just you and I got connected, so.

[00:25:45] Laurens: Exactly.

[00:25:46] Ryan Mellon: Through, through the digital nomad world. So, so like, would you say like a new timer, first time coming in, do they normally book a week? Do they end up extending? Do they like jump in with a full [00:26:00] month?

[00:26:00] Ryan Mellon: What's that normally look like?

[00:26:01] Laurens: I think it's like, oh, the top of my head, I think it's like a 50 50. So like 50% books instantly a month. And I think these would be like more the digital, no. Oh, the, the, the digital. No matter of remote workers that have been traveling for like a year to years. I just like have heard between, from us or maybe do their research of like, okay, I have good faith in this one.

[00:26:21] Laurens: And the other one. Yeah, the other one just books a week and which is find by us. And then, and then yeah, usually they do extend, so we actually do have [00:26:30] statistics on that, on our booking system and 50% of our guests extend. So that means if we have 100 night books, like we actually get 150 per month.

[00:26:40] Ryan Mellon: Okay.

[00:26:41] Laurens: that is just extensions, which we're really happy about too, like, which is really great.

[00:26:44] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, that's always, if you're getting extensions, you know you're doing well.

[00:26:50] Laurens: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:26:52] Ryan Mellon: That's awesome. So what happens when you have like one bad apple in the group? Does that happen Any time ever, ever.

[00:26:59] Laurens: [00:27:00] it has happened. and it's always an awkward situation, but. A hostel, it's so much easier because if you're a hostel, they leave in three days. Right. But if there's a bad apple, and it has happened maybe four or five times in the last three years, and when there's a bad apple, yeah.

[00:27:14] Laurens: Like we, We always give everyone a chance, you know? And, um, we, we talk to them and we say like, Hey, this happened, or, you know, maybe some other guests feel uncomfortable around you. And again, if it's just like one guest that feels uncomfortable around another, [00:27:30] that's something else, that's something we deal with the two of them then together.

[00:27:33] Laurens: But if there's like five reports or six reports of like saying, Hey, that one person, we feel uncomfortable, then we will talk to you personally and say like, you know, like, Hey, this happened and we'll not try to make it, you know. Too personal, like in a personal attack. But, so yeah, in the end, if it doesn't work out, we do ask them like, Hey, we're not a right fit from each, for each other, you know, go living as a community.

[00:27:54] Laurens: And, and it's so important that we all work together with 20 people living together. So, and we [00:28:00] have asked like, I think four or five people just to say like, Hey, here's all your money because we wouldn't feel happy with taking your money if we ask you to leave, but here's all your money back.but yeah, I'm sorry, but like, we're not the right fit for each other.

[00:28:13] Laurens: It's so important, right? Because if, if that one bad apple can create such a bad vibe that all the good apples leave and then you're just stuck with the bad apple, you know? But luckily, luckily is ev everyone so far, most of like 99% is always super chill. You know? [00:28:30] Like they, they get it.

[00:28:31] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. I figured as much. I just thought I'd ask. I I

[00:28:34] Laurens: You've had a bad experience with a bad apple.

[00:28:36] Ryan Mellon: Well, I just remember like being in a hostel in New Zealand and I told the hostel owner like, when you sell this place, I wanna buy it. And she's like, I'm never selling it. It was just such a cool place in Wellington. But I was, I was just so curious about it 'cause it was kind of new on when I was a new backpacker.

[00:28:55] Ryan Mellon: This was. 2018. And so I was so curious [00:29:00] about the business side of it and I asked her a lot of questions and I was like, what's one of the hardest things for you? And she said one of the hardest things for her was like deciding who who comes in and who she denies. You know, like, 'cause it could throw the whole group off and, and I could totally get that.

[00:29:17] Ryan Mellon: And you have a lot, and it's probably even much harder with a hostel because the turnover and the amount of people coming and going is. Much higher, right? You got lots of check-ins and [00:29:30] checkouts every single day. And so, it's a little bit different, but yeah, I was just curious.

[00:29:35] Laurens: Have you ever seen it happen, or because you've stayed probably cold livings, have you ever

[00:29:39] Ryan Mellon: oh yeah, I

[00:29:40] Ryan Mellon: mean,

[00:29:40] Laurens: there was a bad apple and,

[00:29:42] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, I mean there's been like, many times it's like 4:00 AM everyone's asleep in the dorm and some like three, you know, like two people come and just hammered, like turn the lights on, you know,

[00:29:54] Ryan Mellon: start digging through their bags. They always have plastic bags, like, you know, the [00:30:00] ones that make the most noise possible.

[00:30:02] Ryan Mellon: Then they're like getting ready for their, like 6:00 AM flight with all their plastic bags and like, no one can sleep. They don't care about anybody else. So like, I'll definitely, definitely have some stories of that, but it's always been in, in the hostel world and, and definitely like more of the party hostels are where it's a younger crowd, you know, like they just ha they haven't grown up yet.

[00:30:28] Ryan Mellon: So.

[00:30:29] Laurens: Or easier [00:30:30] sleepers than.

[00:30:31] Ryan Mellon: Yeah. Something. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's happened. So I was just curious about that. what would you say, makes, it makes like the digital nomads that you see that are most successful and that are traveling for years? Like what are some characteristics of them and like, what are they doing or not doing that?

[00:30:52] Ryan Mellon: That you see that might make them more successful than some other people that come in and try to be a digital [00:31:00] nomad. They just don't make it.

[00:31:01] Laurens: Huh. I think mental, the mental health, taking care of your mental health on the way. While you're going is really important. And what I mean by that is like, you know, we all take care of our mental health, right? But it's so much more difficult if there's less structure in your life. So when I see like guests that, you know, been traveling for five years and they've, they've somehow found a hobby that they can do anywhere.

[00:31:26] Laurens: Either it's gymming or running or like, you know, I, we [00:31:30] had, we had a guest who, who loved tennis and he made sure every place that he go to. I had like some kind of tennis ground or tennis club or whatever that they can just join for a month.I see like those kind of people that have still their own stuff, like you would, you know, if we back home, like I, I feel like they're mentally really healthy and like always are alive with energy.

[00:31:51] Laurens: And then, I think also like maybe finding structure inside your work life. Like, so there's a lot of people I think who. [00:32:00] Or just say like, okay, from eight until one, I'm gonna work, you know, and actually commit to it. And then they don't feel guilty of not in the afternoon or in the weekends of not doing your work.

[00:32:10] Laurens: Because a lot of times, like actually visual meeting and remote working, there's not a bus behind you like, Hey, you've gotta work. You know, like, like, you have gotta tell yourself, okay, I've gotta go to my own chair and work because, you know, nobody's really gonna tell me. And it's, it's a hard thing to do, I think.

[00:32:27] Laurens: Like it's really. It [00:32:30] requires discipline, I think, in some way. And then definitely like I think the long term digital, no matter remote workers that I've been seeing that have been traveling for four or five years, they've been doing like something like they, they've tested like one year all the things that they hate and they like, and then the second year and third year, fourth year, they just kept.

[00:32:50] Laurens: Going back to the places that they loved or, or traveled with the friends that they found over that year or two years. And they like, okay, hey, we traveled one [00:33:00] month together and next year let's meet again there. and so they find this consistency of like coming back to the places that they know, you know, like they kind of firm from reality of like what they know.

[00:33:10] Laurens: and then maybe three months, a year they may be like, still explore, you know, like that. Adventure kind of thing. But they know they're gonna go there, so they're also, their batteries are charged. And I feel like that, and again, that is my opinion. I have no idea that's the truth, but that's what I see of like, whenever we have a healthy, like a really, you know, someone [00:33:30] has like, is really good and, and just really healthy, like emotionally and everything, we see those kind of like things happening.

[00:33:38] Ryan Mellon: Okay. I It's good. It's good for you to like see from the outside and like for people to know because I think a, yeah, like having, like a common sport or like, doing something that you love, that you can find anywhere. I know a lot. Of nomads that are big into paddle and, like pickleball and all of that and like, or bachata or dancing or something that there's [00:34:00] always, so there's always this group that they can plug into.

[00:34:03] Ryan Mellon: But then also just making sure that you know, that you're taking care of yourself, you're going slow. And then, you know, the longer I traveled, like the, my. Number count of countries like doesn't get go up as high as it used to. You know, like my first six months I did like eight countries and now it's been eight years and I'm only at like 24 or 25 because I keep going back to the same [00:34:30] places.

[00:34:30] Ryan Mellon: But I don't care. It's not about a number, it's about like going, going to places that like I really love and enjoy and I. I can walk the streets and know where I am and like know the restaurants I want to go to and like the places I wanna stay and the people I wanna connect with. So

[00:34:46] Ryan Mellon: I think

[00:34:46] Laurens: And then actually like, like if, if you go from there, like why would that be? Like, do they, because all of us still want to leave and explore to different countries. Right. But like. So then if you go deeper, then maybe why are we [00:35:00] leaving? You know, like maybe to still seek that adventure in our comfort zone or, because I think, I haven't seen anyone really traveling healthy that has been traveling for five years and like going every month to a new destination.

[00:35:12] Laurens: You know, like, and there are probably, there are people out there, but it's a difficult thing to do, you

[00:35:17] Ryan Mellon: Yeah, it's a lot. It's, I mean, just the. The travel, the time zone changes with work and then visa requirements. And like, just every time you're in a new place, you [00:35:30] gotta figure out like the currency, the language, the, the, where's the grocery store, how about a sim card or this or that and the other. And it's exhausting, like, and you're supposed to be working 40 hours a week or whatever you're doing, you know, also on top of it.

[00:35:46] Ryan Mellon: So I think, Yeah, it's a common theme, like going too fast. It just, it will totally burn, burn out,

[00:35:53] Ryan Mellon: uh, nomads. So. Awesome. Well cool man. I really do appreciate you taking the time. [00:36:00] It sounds like you have an amazing business there. You guys are doing really great. might be able to stop by and check it out sometime soon.

[00:36:07] Ryan Mellon: I'm not too far away from you and I don't have plans for two weeks. I've been looking at flights. I don't know what's happening, but it sound, it's sounding very, like a good spot to check out. So who knows? Um, so where can people find you?

[00:36:23] Laurens: people, people can find us on Instagram, Instagram, like on CO 4 0 4, coli, or on our website, [00:36:30] co four four.com.

[00:36:31] Ryan Mellon: Awesome.

[00:36:32] Laurens: usually how people find us. Yeah.

[00:36:33] Ryan Mellon: And then you, they can book directly with you on that website, right?

[00:36:37] Laurens: Yeah, they can book directly on the website or if you have questions like, you know, the web WhatsApp number is there, you can always call me, message me, voice, message me, email me or us, you know, and like, we're, we're always happy to help because I understand new place, new country, a lot of questions and we're just happy to make everyone feel as comfortable as possible, you know?

[00:36:55] Ryan Mellon: Cool. Awesome. All right man. I really appreciate you taking the time and I [00:37:00] hope you have a great rest of your day.

[00:37:02] Laurens: Thank you so much, Ryan.

[00:37:04] Ryan Mellon: See ya./

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